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	<title>Comments on: Web Apps vs. Web Sites</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bill.burkecentral.com/2008/12/12/web-apps-vs-web-sites/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bill.burkecentral.com/2008/12/12/web-apps-vs-web-sites/</link>
	<description>Software plumbing using middleware wrenches</description>
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		<title>By: billburke</title>
		<link>http://bill.burkecentral.com/2008/12/12/web-apps-vs-web-sites/#comment-2416</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[billburke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 05:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bill.burkecentral.com/?p=180#comment-2416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great stuff Jmarranz.  I appreciate the links and ideas!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff Jmarranz.  I appreciate the links and ideas!</p>
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		<title>By: jmarranz</title>
		<link>http://bill.burkecentral.com/2008/12/12/web-apps-vs-web-sites/#comment-2409</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jmarranz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bill.burkecentral.com/?p=180#comment-2409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another proof of concept is this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aspeoplesay.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;web application&lt;/a&gt;. It runs in the same web page, there is no reload. If you click on the links bottom, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.innowhere.com/aspeoplesay/index.jsp?searcheng_gate=help&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Help&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;Contact/Use Terms/Privacy/Credits&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Contact/Use Terms/Privacy/Credits&lt;/a&gt; you will see two simulated popups. 

These links are false links because they contain onclick=&quot;return false&quot;, when clicked an AJAX event is sent to the server to show the popup. However Google crawler doesn&#039;t see this onclick handler and traverse the link, in the server this link is a &quot;gate&quot; to the state of &quot;popup shown&quot;, in some way the server simulates internally the steps to go this state using AJAX navigation (of course without user interaction).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another proof of concept is this <a href="http://www.aspeoplesay.com/" rel="nofollow">web application</a>. It runs in the same web page, there is no reload. If you click on the links bottom, <a href="http://www.innowhere.com/aspeoplesay/index.jsp?searcheng_gate=help" rel="nofollow">Help</a> and <a href="Contact/Use Terms/Privacy/Credits" rel="nofollow">Contact/Use Terms/Privacy/Credits</a> you will see two simulated popups. </p>
<p>These links are false links because they contain onclick=&#8221;return false&#8221;, when clicked an AJAX event is sent to the server to show the popup. However Google crawler doesn&#8217;t see this onclick handler and traverse the link, in the server this link is a &#8220;gate&#8221; to the state of &#8220;popup shown&#8221;, in some way the server simulates internally the steps to go this state using AJAX navigation (of course without user interaction).</p>
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		<title>By: jmarranz</title>
		<link>http://bill.burkecentral.com/2008/12/12/web-apps-vs-web-sites/#comment-2408</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jmarranz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bill.burkecentral.com/?p=180#comment-2408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem you cite is GWT specific, GWT generates the HTML layout using JavaScript APIs. 

Anyway this problem is interesting because it affects to &quot;One Single Web Page&quot; applications and web sites. These days the difference between web based applications and web sites is becoming irrelevant. 

I think we can avoid the search engine problem of pure AJAX applications by using &quot;permalinks&quot;, visible or hidden. Permalinks are especial links to instruct Google (or any other web crawler) to traverse our AJAX intensive web application using page based navigation, every page is, as I like to name, a &quot;fundamental state&quot; of our intensive AJAX web application. 

 I&#039;ve tried this approach with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.itsnat.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ItsNat&lt;/a&gt;, other frameworks using AJAX like Wicket and JSF (of course with AJAX) can use this approach. The problem is GWT because this framework isn&#039;t template based and doesn&#039;t generate an initial web page with markup.

 For instance, this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.innowhere.com:8080/itsnat&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;web application&lt;/a&gt; is searchable. More details &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.innowhere.com:8080/itsnat/feashow_servlet?itsnat_doc_name=feashow.main&amp;feature=feashow.core.bookmarking.doc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.innowhere.com:8080/itsnat/feashow_servlet?itsnat_doc_name=feashow.main&amp;feature=feashow.core.bookmarking.ex&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; a live example of this approach.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem you cite is GWT specific, GWT generates the HTML layout using JavaScript APIs. </p>
<p>Anyway this problem is interesting because it affects to &#8220;One Single Web Page&#8221; applications and web sites. These days the difference between web based applications and web sites is becoming irrelevant. </p>
<p>I think we can avoid the search engine problem of pure AJAX applications by using &#8220;permalinks&#8221;, visible or hidden. Permalinks are especial links to instruct Google (or any other web crawler) to traverse our AJAX intensive web application using page based navigation, every page is, as I like to name, a &#8220;fundamental state&#8221; of our intensive AJAX web application. </p>
<p> I&#8217;ve tried this approach with <a href="http://www.itsnat.org" rel="nofollow">ItsNat</a>, other frameworks using AJAX like Wicket and JSF (of course with AJAX) can use this approach. The problem is GWT because this framework isn&#8217;t template based and doesn&#8217;t generate an initial web page with markup.</p>
<p> For instance, this <a href="http://www.innowhere.com:8080/itsnat" rel="nofollow">web application</a> is searchable. More details <a href="http://www.innowhere.com:8080/itsnat/feashow_servlet?itsnat_doc_name=feashow.main&amp;feature=feashow.core.bookmarking.doc" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and <a href="http://www.innowhere.com:8080/itsnat/feashow_servlet?itsnat_doc_name=feashow.main&amp;feature=feashow.core.bookmarking.ex" rel="nofollow">here</a> a live example of this approach.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Subbu Allamaraju</title>
		<link>http://bill.burkecentral.com/2008/12/12/web-apps-vs-web-sites/#comment-2372</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Subbu Allamaraju]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 21:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bill.burkecentral.com/?p=180#comment-2372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From the user&#039;s point of view, aren&#039;t they both the same? AFAIR, &quot;web app&quot; is a term coined in J2EE land, and I don&#039;t remember that word used in non-J2EE communities early on. IMO, searchability is an orthogonal issue, and matters if the information is public either globally or within an intranet. If the information is a candidate for search, but is not searchable because of the technology choice, then that is a wrong choice of technology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the user&#8217;s point of view, aren&#8217;t they both the same? AFAIR, &#8220;web app&#8221; is a term coined in J2EE land, and I don&#8217;t remember that word used in non-J2EE communities early on. IMO, searchability is an orthogonal issue, and matters if the information is public either globally or within an intranet. If the information is a candidate for search, but is not searchable because of the technology choice, then that is a wrong choice of technology.</p>
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