Comments on: Anybody miss VB? http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/ Middleware tech talk Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:09:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: billburke http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-1148 billburke Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:04:13 +0000 http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-1148 I know Andy.... :) Hope you don't mind me borrowing it. I know Andy…. :) Hope you don’t mind me borrowing it.

]]> By: Andy http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-1146 Andy Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:20:29 +0000 http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-1146 Don't steal my material :-) this is one of my favorite rants... Don’t steal my material :-) this is one of my favorite rants…

]]> By: rainwebs http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-958 rainwebs Sat, 01 Dec 2007 01:47:47 +0000 http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-958 For me it was Delphi ;-). But, you're absolutely right. Here's my interpretation: <a href="http://blog.rainer.eschen.name/2006/12/15/nightmares-on-jsf-street-in-trinidad/" rel="nofollow">Nightmares on JSF Street in Trinidad</a> For me it was Delphi ;-). But, you’re absolutely right. Here’s my interpretation:

Nightmares on JSF Street in Trinidad

]]> By: NilsM http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-527 NilsM Tue, 06 Nov 2007 14:23:43 +0000 http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-527 Yes I miss VB dearly. If was the first platform usable at all for creating business type GUI's. For a long time the only one available. The fact that we now make web aps with such simple and primitive tools is devastating. Of course the VB language never was nor is any good. It's the ease of creating good applications that's what is good about VB. I need OO as much as the next guy, but if it takes me a month to create what I could do in days in VB something is very fundamentally wrong. And something IS wrong, very wrong. The idea of C was a good one - a language easy to compile into very efficient code with the compiler technology of the day, but not easy for most humans to read. Then compiler technology became very much better, but still C++ was built on the syntax of C - reason: humans couldn't or wouldn't learn a new syntax. Then Java came along still building on the C/C++ unreadable stuff - because humans (programmers even) can't learn new things! Stupid? Ask yourself. Then some people learn about the advantages of object oriented programming and tries to design JEE around those ideas. They never understood the relational database ideas and missed the the boat entirely. (The universities hadn't thought relational databases for some time believing they where all fully developed so no research was possible.) It took many years and a lot of frustration to make JEE half usable in version 3. All along anyone even wanting to look could see the major flaws and what should have been done about them - but nobody wanted to. Then there are all the millions of frameworks that solves this little problem here and that little problem there. A lot of them try to solve the problems of GUI development on top of the web. The web with it's ideas around HTTP/HTML where fine for creating a web, but as basis for GUI development of bussiness (form based) applications has very major flaws. As usual the computing community took what existed and used it for all or rather much more than it's worth. They designed, or tried to design, their GUI's on top of something where it basically couldn't be done. Nobody tried to do anything with the basic flaws. Nobody realy went to work on the development platform which was the browser in combination with the protocols to make it really useful for GUI bussiness applications. Back in the 1990's it was obviously needed, but why do anything about it. Hacking (in it's worst meaning) on the current platform was always viewed as better than designing anything new around it or in addition to it. 10 years later (sometimes 20) it seems that part of the problems slowly gets fixed in this business of ours. Fast paced as it is :-) Yes I miss VB dearly. If was the first platform usable at all for creating business type GUI’s. For a long time the only one available.
The fact that we now make web aps with such simple and primitive tools is devastating.
Of course the VB language never was nor is any good. It’s the ease of creating good applications that’s what is good about VB.
I need OO as much as the next guy, but if it takes me a month to create what I could do in days in VB something is very fundamentally wrong.

And something IS wrong, very wrong. The idea of C was a good one - a language easy to compile into very efficient code with the compiler technology of the day, but not easy for most humans to read. Then compiler technology became very much better, but still C++ was built on the syntax of C - reason: humans couldn’t or wouldn’t learn a new syntax. Then Java came along still building on the C/C++ unreadable stuff - because humans (programmers even) can’t learn new things!
Stupid? Ask yourself.
Then some people learn about the advantages of object oriented programming and tries to design JEE around those ideas. They never understood the relational database ideas and missed the the boat entirely. (The universities hadn’t thought relational databases for some time believing they where all fully developed so no research was possible.) It took many years and a lot of frustration to make JEE half usable in version 3. All along anyone even wanting to look could see the major flaws and what should have been done about them - but nobody wanted to.
Then there are all the millions of frameworks that solves this little problem here and that little problem there. A lot of them try to solve the problems of GUI development on top of the web. The web with it’s ideas around HTTP/HTML where fine for creating a web, but as basis for GUI development of bussiness (form based) applications has very major flaws. As usual the computing community took what existed and used it for all or rather much more than it’s worth. They designed, or tried to design, their GUI’s on top of something where it basically couldn’t be done. Nobody tried to do anything with the basic flaws. Nobody realy went to work on the development platform which was the browser in combination with the protocols to make it really useful for GUI bussiness applications. Back in the 1990’s it was obviously needed, but why do anything about it.
Hacking (in it’s worst meaning) on the current platform was always viewed as better than designing anything new around it or in addition to it.
10 years later (sometimes 20) it seems that part of the problems slowly gets fixed in this business of ours. Fast paced as it is :-)

]]> By: Panos http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-470 Panos Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:31:12 +0000 http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-470 Java on desktop was a lost deal for Sun in the early days. There was no way it could compete with the already established Microsoft. Even the biggest Java project at those early days (San Francisco by IBM) was targeting the server. Luckily Sun realized this quite soon and turned all its efforts to the server where it was already established. Now that Java has made a name (even Sun changed its trade name from SUNW to JAVA) has more chances of making an impact on the desktop. And the future is bright :) Java on desktop was a lost deal for Sun in the early days. There was no way it could compete with the already established Microsoft. Even the biggest Java project at those early days (San Francisco by IBM) was targeting the server. Luckily Sun realized this quite soon and turned all its efforts to the server where it was already established. Now that Java has made a name (even Sun changed its trade name from SUNW to JAVA) has more chances of making an impact on the desktop. And the future is bright :)

]]> By: billburke http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-466 billburke Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:07:56 +0000 http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-466 Yeah, AWT...Its been awhile :) Max, maybe you're confusing VB with VC++? VB had zero boilerplate code. In a 3-tiered system, you could basically have VB as just a shell that delegated to the server/middle-tier. A few times I did business objects in C++ and connected VB via OLE/COM (locally). Really, I don't miss the language itself, just the ease of which you could build apps. Yeah, AWT…Its been awhile :)

Max, maybe you’re confusing VB with VC++? VB had zero boilerplate code. In a 3-tiered system, you could basically have VB as just a shell that delegated to the server/middle-tier. A few times I did business objects in C++ and connected VB via OLE/COM (locally).

Really, I don’t miss the language itself, just the ease of which you could build apps.

]]> By: Max http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-465 Max Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:03:35 +0000 http://bill.burkecentral.com/2007/10/31/anybody-miss-vb/#comment-465 I guess you mean Java AWT, not SWT :) ...and no I don't miss VB since it was encouraging/generating too much boilerplate code...which over time turned into spaghetti. But it was really fun for doing prototypes and small apps in...that I do miss. I guess you mean Java AWT, not SWT :)

…and no I don’t miss VB since it was encouraging/generating too much boilerplate code…which over time turned into spaghetti.

But it was really fun for doing prototypes and small apps in…that I do miss.

]]>